Jump to content
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt

Recommended Posts

Hi Peter,

 

5 weeks ago I bought home a pony who had foundered and was left to recover in a big 'ole paddock and no hoof care. ( oh yes, hubby was thrilled and understanding, lol ) Anyway, I do need to take some photos to show you and see if I'm on the right track, (keep forgetting, memory like a sieve :whistling: )

 

Her heels were high, her toes were long and turned up at the ends and all the lamine (sp?) white line had seperated on all feet and there is bulging on all the soles. (yes, I know photos would help)

 

I am happy to say I have taken it slowly slowly, trimming a little every couple of days and she has stopped limping after only 5 weeks, I need to work out how to encourage the seperated hoof wall to start growing downward. Because she has stopped limping I am taking this as a good sign, is it o.k that all her weight is on the soles? Will the soles always stay bulged? or is there something I can do for them?

 

I have taken the heels almost all the way down so they are almost flush with the soles about 2-3mm to go.

I have taken back the curved up toes a bit at as time, they are now vertical again but there is still some bulging where they had started to curve up.

 

By the deep rings on her hoofs I am guessing the founder may have happended about 3 months before I came across her. Is it right that I will have to wait for about a year of new hoof growth to eventually get new lamine?

 

I am not sure how much wall to take back as there is a gap / seperation where there should be a white line should be.

 

The wall is thick, so should I leave it thick until I get some new healthy growth? Then trim it back? (does this make sense)

 

She had flares on all the feet also, I have been able to take most of them off, there is just 2 spots that need a little more taken off. I am trying to make the changes slowly to reduce any further trauma. (if that's possible)

 

Her diet is Oaten chaff with mineral sups mixed into 1/3 cup of wet bran (to coax her to eat them). I couldn't think of anything 'less green' to feed her. Our paddocks are dry so she gets some shedded grass hay that is thrown out to all the horses. Pocco my arab, keeps them all moving throughout the day with games of chasey, and round and round the biscuits of hay I put out. :)

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers Trace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

G’day Tracey!!!

 

As always… Where are the pickies????

 

BUT:

 

Yes you are on the right track…

 

Diet is the first issue… Minerals a la Pat Colby: dolomite, copper, sulphur, may be some zinc and boron…

 

Grass hay is fundamental and I just expected you to be right up with that… do watch this one when the grrrass comes back in summer.

 

Trimming, get the heels to the sole level and find the true foot behind the widest part of the hoof (or behind the point where the whiteline has not been destroyed).

 

DO NOT try to get the bottom of the hoof flat !!! Almost certainly the front will be too short vertically and when the back of the hoof is the right shape the toes will probably be several mm off the ground!

 

At the front you should cut away all of the hoofwall with a vertical cut from about 3mm in front of the true sole.

 

There are several ways to address removing the laminar wedge at the front of the hoof…

 

You can see some pictures of the way I do it here: http://picasaweb.google.com.au/hoofworks/Chester?feat=directlink

 

But you may like to send me some pickies to mark before you try this!!!

 

Or ask a lot of questions when you post some pix…

 

Peter Laidely

www.hoofworksaustralia.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest lindyfullarton

Hi Tracey

 

I too have a welsh A broodmare that suffered a similar fate due to her sneaking the pears off the fruit trees when we weren't looking.

 

Sounds to me like you are doing all the right things. We are doing almost the same save for the trimming every day or so. I get my farrier every 3 weeks which is working really well for us at present. Good luck. I pray every day that I don't come back as a pony! :whistling:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW what awesomely fast responses!! Thanks Peter and Lindy :)

 

Yes, I will post some pictures first before I do to much cutting. I remember your lesson Peter, if I can't take a lot off then do lots of little bits :) funny what sticks in your mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I coming to your place Tuesday? I would love to meet minty :o)

 

LOL! sorry mate :( have sent you a txt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your Link Peter,

 

What do the 'forcing grooves' do?

 

yep, my little pony's feet look similar to your photos. I'm a bit worried about trimming to far back like the one with the bug in it. o.k will take photos asap and get your advice. Thank-you so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

G’day Tracey!!!

 

QUOTE: What do the 'forcing grooves' do?

 

This is NOT the sort of thing beginners should “try at home” but you have enough experience to try this and it will make a big difference in the time it takes and improvement level you get from this pony.

 

The forcing groove projects the new growth straight downward, behind the incorrect old, deformed, growth and forces the laminar wedge downwards until it is removed at the bottom and is replaced by normal healthy whiteline.

 

If we do not do this the new growth just follows the old up and over the laminar wedge.

 

It is important the groove perfectly projects the line of the true dorsal hoofwall above the last major event line and that the bottom of the groove is a sharp square angle cut with the corner between the fine side and the edge of the rasp. You should start with the groove about one third of the thickness of the hoofwall at first trim and it should be about three quarters of the way through the thickness of the hoofwall just before it is trimmed of at the bottom in three to four months time.

 

In fact it is just the same as the normal rasping "Parralell to the hoofwall" on a normal hoofwall but we are using the angle of the new growth to guide us as to what is "normal".

 

And, like always, if you cannot, or are not game to, "take more off" then just make a start and take it off "more often". All you need to do is keep the groove just in front of any new growth as it decends so that it does not change angle.

 

I much prefer this to the practice of removing all of the dorsal hoofwall and laminar wedge, which leaves the front of the hoof with less protection and does not give as fast results.

 

Just trimming the bottom of the hoofwall may be OK if there is just stretching of the whiteline but will not get rid of the laminar wedge.

 

Peter Laidely

www.hoofworksaustralia.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Gosh how time flies..poor Minty, her feet have been neglected for a couple of weeks and it shows oh so quickly. Today I took photos of before and after today's trim. I feel that I really need to take the toes shorter to expose the bug. She is lame again with todays effort and I have not exposed anywhere as much as I think I should.

 

I don't know how much to take off?

Little bits at a time?

Or open it right up to use your bug buster stuff to get rid of it?

Do 1 hoof at a time? (because I think she will be sore)

or do them all at once?

post-88-047892600 1280808040_thumb.jpg

post-88-058546400 1280808289_thumb.jpg

post-88-002831900 1280808466_thumb.jpg

post-88-092294000 1280808670_thumb.jpg

post-88-053990300 1280808773_thumb.jpg

post-88-015380700 1280808866_thumb.jpg

post-88-048423600 1280808981_thumb.jpg

post-88-015573100 1280809113_thumb.jpg

post-88-075504600 1280809243_thumb.jpg

post-88-098384800 1280809443_thumb.jpg

post-88-040682300 1280809581_thumb.jpg

post-88-036349300 1280811834_thumb.jpg

post-88-032486200 1280812065_thumb.jpg

post-88-072799400 1280812188_thumb.jpg

post-88-008360400 1280812358_thumb.jpg

post-88-075639700 1280812477_thumb.jpg

post-88-030896100 1280812584_thumb.jpg

post-88-033928100 1280812708_thumb.jpg

post-88-019311500 1280812834_thumb.jpg

post-88-047896400 1280812978_thumb.jpg

post-88-028913700 1280813082_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted to write notes next to each piccie but somehow they have uploaded out of order and I can't work out how to put text next to them. :rolleyes: Have to go out now, I'll come back to it tonight and try again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now the edit button won't work on the post that has the photos, oh well if you hover your curser over the photo it at least says which ones were the before and after trim. :confused1:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

G’day Tracey!!!

 

No you are not really on the right track…

 

Sorry..

 

So here are some hints, but although I do expect you to cope with this job because of your experience, it is NOT the sort of thing a beginner should try unless there are no other options…

 

SO:

 

Draw a line across each hoof from inside to outside to divide the front, where the whiteline has been destroyed, from the back where there is still healthy whiteline. Because these hoofs are still in the maximum damage for a walking horse category these lines will all be almost exactly under the P2/P3 pivot and so at the widest part of the hoof.

 

Behind this line you must lower the heels as far as possible which is a LOT more than you have done…

 

In front of these lines you must almost leave the soles completely untouched!!! Especially at the very toe!!!

 

This will almost certainly leave horse walking on the back of the hoof with the sole, at the toe, completely off the ground when the hoof is on a hard flat surface!

 

It will be exactly the opposite of the “scoop” or “anterior-posterior” arch that we do look for in a healthy foot.

 

Next you must take the nippers and cut the hoofwall away, perfectly square to the ground, at least from ten o’clock to two o’clock but preferably right to the back of the damaged section of the whiteline.

 

DO NOT leave any hoofwall, or laminar wedge, that can touch the ground before each next trim in the damaged area!!!

 

You could pretend that there was still a 3mm whiteline around the front of the sole if you want to and not cut all the whiteline away… but that is really not necessary…

 

Next go back and look again at the pictures of Chester’s “forcing grooves”. http://picasaweb.google.com.au/hoofworks/Chester?feat=directlink

 

This pony needs exactly the same treatment!!!

 

Start at the last major event line… it is ten or twelve mm below the hairline…

Follow the shape of the event lines below and you will see that the forcing grooves will form lower at the back of the hoof and in fact, after two or three trims, they will curve downwards exactly to the point where the healthy whiteline is still at the back of the hoof,,, exactly where you drew those lines I mentioned at the start.

 

Read what I said earlier including:

 

QUOTE:

 

The forcing groove projects the new growth straight downward, behind the incorrect old, deformed, growth and forces the laminar wedge downwards until it is removed at the bottom and is replaced by normal healthy whiteline.

 

If we do not do this the new growth just follows the old up and over the laminar wedge.

 

It is important the groove perfectly projects the line of the true dorsal hoofwall above the last major event line and that the bottom of the groove is a sharp square angle of the fine side and fine edge of the rasp. You should start with the groove about one third of the thickness of the hoofwall at first trim and it should be about three quarters of the way through the thickness of the hoofwall just before it is trimmed of at the bottom in three to four months time.

 

Take lots of pickies and be prepared to be amazed at the improvement you get…

 

Do not worry about “the bug” at this stage, as it is secondary to the laminar wedge and “rotated P3” problem…

 

But of course you can paint any black holes with Bug Buster after each trim…

 

Peter Laidely

www.hoofworksaustralia.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, just looked at the photos of Peter's rescue. Tracey you are either very brave or totally insane - I'm opting for brave.

 

You folks who take on this kind of thing are amazing. I cannot at this time ever imagine having the patience, the tenacity, or the courage to take on a set of feet like that.

 

Those ponies must be amazing, or be amazingly exceedingly lucky/blessed to have been taken on by you.

 

Personally I think I stick to making sure that those things don't actually happen in the first place. Very very scary, and a big reminder of the responsibility we take on when we take on the management of a horses life.

 

'cole

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, just looked at the photos of Peter's rescue. Tracey you are either very brave or totally insane - I'm opting for brave.

 

You folks who take on this kind of thing are amazing. I cannot at this time ever imagine having the patience, the tenacity, or the courage to take on a set of feet like that.

 

Those ponies must be amazing, or be amazingly exceedingly lucky/blessed to have been taken on by you.

 

Personally I think I stick to making sure that those things don't actually happen in the first place. Very very scary, and a big reminder of the responsibility we take on when we take on the management of a horses life.

 

'cole

 

Thank-you for the brave comment, Martin opted for the insane catagory. Yep, the voice in my head yelled out don't take this pony home, my gut said she is worth her weight in gold for her temprement around the children she deserves a chance... :whistling:

 

We have rehabilitated several horses now and it has cost more then we ever get back financially, so I consider it a learning experience from each one. I'm no martyr, I don't try and save them all, but from time to time something happens and they end up at our place.

 

Yes I totally agree, I work on keeping the horses I have sound in the first place. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank-you very much Peter for the time you have taken to help me out here.

 

I am very lucky to have a very helpful offsider today, Sharon stayed the whole day, with notes and photos in hand we set off with a silver pen and drew pretty lines all over Minty's feet before we butchered them....

 

It gives you a real appreciation for the poor guys that do this full time for a living, my poor aching back....

 

O.K see what we have,

 

The front right is a terrible shape, but to follow the laminar underneath this is what I ended up with.

 

I feel from your advice I need to take the heels down even further, but the frog is doing some funny growing around the bulbs of the heels, which made me worry about cutting anything and further down, hope you can see what I mean.

 

On the last photos I have marked with a silver pen (hope you can see it) where I think I should put the forcing groove. The hair over her coronet is long and it is about the 10 to 12mm down as suggested. If this is the right spot and you give me the go ahead, will I use the edge of the rasp to start the groove.

 

Her feet are so small and my tools are so big, it really was a hard job. We did go very slow and careful, I kept thinking she was going to bleed to death if I cut to much off, but there was no blood. (either this is a good sign or her whole hoof is dead and will need to be amputated..... yep poor humour, sorry )

post-88-090890400 1281339897_thumb.jpg

post-88-003204500 1281340036_thumb.jpg

post-88-001908300 1281340304_thumb.jpg

post-88-043210800 1281340660_thumb.jpg

post-88-027513800 1281340949_thumb.jpg

post-88-085594400 1281341434_thumb.jpg

post-88-048309700 1281342023_thumb.jpg

post-88-099665600 1281342431_thumb.jpg

post-88-038036200 1281342584_thumb.jpg

post-88-076663700 1281342803_thumb.jpg

post-88-009490300 1281343311_thumb.jpg

post-88-068628800 1281343613_thumb.jpg

post-88-003871500 1281344999_thumb.jpg

post-88-001286400 1281345299_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I wish I was there. I love learning from other peoples experience (good or bad). I can't wait to hear from Peter again.

 

Man I can't even trim my own ponies hoves that have nothing wrong with them, your poor back

 

Well done for getting in there thumbsup.gif

 

Belinda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

G’day Tracey!!!

 

You lady, are nothing short of BRAVE and BRILLIENT!!!!

 

That was the best “ ‘ava a go” I have ever seen!

 

And stopping to ask what to do next is also great.

 

So first about lowering the heels…

 

You now have to clear away a bit more undergrowth so you can find the signposts.

 

So taper the bars, including all the non-laminar bars quite firmly from the back of the sole – forward to the front of the frog.

 

In this particular case the sole has not been damaged by the founder in this area so you do not need to be afraid. But remember you are trimming hoofwall… NOT SOLE!!!!

 

Next do trim the edges of the frog to define the lateral sulci and clean out the central sulci taking care to leave the “barrage” at the back of each central sulcus if possible. It probably will be as the frogs are well overgrown because they have been over-protected by the un-naturally high heels.

 

Then trim away any “flaps” from the back of the periople and define the joins between the frog and the hoofwall at the points of the heels… these look as though they are a bit different in each hoof, and possibly even from side to side on any one hoof…

 

However this join is one of the signposts for how low the heels can go… NO… the heels can not normally be lowered right to this joint but cleaning them will help you assess better.

 

Then you will be able to see that some of the back of the frog can also be lowered. You may even be able to see some clear lines which show the natural defoliation planes which will help you to achieve much more “normal” looking frogs. Remember that the bottom of the frog should have a slight bulge, or “cushion” under the P2/P3 axis at the widest part of the hoof.

 

Remember that you do not have to achieve everything in one go!

 

If in doubt, do what you think is right and then come back in a week and see what has changed… It gets easier and easier as the back of the hoof returns to normal and then that normality grows from the back – forward and from the top – downward.

 

Now I am going to tell you something that sounds horrible but is in fact critical for pathology work like this…

 

There is a clear “warning sign” that tells you if you are about to go “too far” with lowering the heels.

 

The terminal papillae project down into the whiteline about three or four millimeters. If you rasp too much off they show up as a single row of bright pinhole spots of blood around the whiteline of the heel.

 

NO we do not normally want to see these… but in cases like this, if we do just see them we know we have definitely gone far enough…

 

If you have not seen this you definitely have not gone too far!!!

 

BTW this is nothing like the “pink” that we see in the whitelines at the toes which is bruising from old laminitis events that happened six to nine weeks earlier…

 

And it is NOT what we would ever want to see if we were trimming a healthy hoof…

 

Now to the forcing grooves

 

I still have not worked out how to post pickies directly on here so here is a link to my Picasa album where I have posted some markups

 

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/hoofworks/TraceySFounderPony?feat=directlink

 

Although we do remove all of the mess and bulk of laminar wedge at ground level, (and do so again at each trim until the whiteline has re-established) we intentionally leave the mess as a protective “lump” in front of the damaged laminae, but start to re-establish the natural wall from the top –downwards and from the back forwards.

 

In doing this we are not primarily cutting the old growth, or the laminar wedge, away… primarily we are ensuring that the new growth can go straight down the natural angle of the dorsal hoofwall.

 

Think about the new “growth” rather than thinking about cutting away the scar tissue. Do not try to “push” the groove downwards; try to keep the area clean in front of the new material.

 

In fact leaving the “lump” forces the new growth down, and behind the lump, which stimulates the regeneration of the live laminae.

 

Sometime with hoofs as bad as this you may have to do it more than once and I have even had a few where I had a new groove started before the old one had grown out.

 

But the nice bit is that as we do so we are watching the hoof naturally healing and growing back as it should be; we know this takes about eight months… if we have to do it twice it may take sixteen months… But if we do NOT do this the scarring never goes away.

 

We also have to admit that we are restoring the hoof capsule to the best it can be… there is no suggestion that this process will restore underlying changes or damage in the bone if these have occurred. It does however, almost always, stop further damage to the bone.

 

Keep posting Pickies… You are an inspiration to us all!!!

 

Peter Laidely

www.hoofworksaustralia.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh God thank-you Peter, I have not slept waiting for your reply and biting my own nails in anticipation all morning.... Thank-you Thank-you Thank-you. Again I have printed out your info and the photos to take down with me, it will be propably thursday before I get to touch her again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Peter,

we have had over an inch of rain, great for tanks not for muddy paddocks.

I can move the pony to a dry stable with cement floor next week, (monday) but this means she won't be moving around freely.

If she stays at my place where she has room to move in her 'jenny craig' round yard with no grass, she is standing in mud. Is there a lesser of 2 evils here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's amazing what a difference a cup of tea can make. The trailer has been removed from the shed and I have used portable yards to make a stall for our little pony. The floor is gravel so I have found all the cardboard boxes I can and flattened them down to provide some cushioning from the rocks. She is happily standing on the cardboard, munching grass from a hay bag with dry feet, yay.

 

I failed to mention in the above post, with the wonderful rain comes nice green shoots, so she will have to be confined to stop her gorging herself. I will take her out for walks throughout the day, to keep her moving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

G’day Tracey!!!

 

OK relax…

 

A day or two of anything will make no difference at this stage…

 

Looks like we will get some wind and then a fine week and the “jenny craig paddock” will probably dry out. Besides at this stage “the bug” is still not your big problem…

 

Keep the movement; Keep her near you; and spare her the emotional stress of another move.

 

 

Peter Laidely

www.hoofworksaustralia.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Peter, taking deep breaths and chilling out now. Boy this could be a long 8 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tracey - when you have done all you can to stand, just stand.

 

You are doing an awesome job, remember to allow time and the healing process to do it's job, because that is part of you doing yours.

 

keep well,

 

'cole

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×